Is pop-Salsa Helping or Hurting Salsa Music?

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That’s the debate Eddie Palmieri recently started and Victor Manuelle engaged in. It is the latest round on the topic of pop-Salsa that has been debated for years.

Palmieri said that the new style of pop-Salsa was hurting Salsa music, while Victor Manuelle reacted that it’s all part of Salsa music evolution.

Palmieri’s Historical Point of View

At this moment it’s hard to find a better Salsa music flag bearer than Eddie Palmieri. The veteran Salsa and Latin Jazz pianist saw and participated in the whole evolution of the genre. His brother Charlie Palmieri started the Charanga La Duboney, from where Johnny Pacheco came from to later form the famous FANIA record label. Eddie, who played in Tito Rodriguez’s great orchestra at the top of its game, left to create one of the most influential Salsa music bands. So Eddie witnessed the forming, the golden years, and the recent decline of Salsa music.

Palmieri’s point is that pop-Salsa lacks the essence of Salsa that is rhythmic with improvisation at its center piece. Eddie argues that solos used to be an essential part of a band’s performance, and that is now lost. The music has become basically singer-centered music, lacking some of the fundamentals that made it what it is. The softening of Salsa music in this way, has made it less relevant and, therefore, of less interest to Latin music fans.

Victor Manuelle’s Evolutionary Point of View on pop-Salsa

My respects to Victor Manuelle for the way he engaged in this debate. The first thing he did is acknowledge maestro Palmieri’s expertise in the subject. He wasn’t even born when Palmieri was performing in the Palladium. He knows the maestro and has performed with Palmieri, and yet, very respectfully disagreed with him.

Victor Manuelle is a pop-Salsa music star.
Puerto Rican Salsa singer Victor Manuelle has had a long and very successful career catering Salsa Romantica and pop Salsa fans.

The “Sonero de la Juventud” is one of the 1st generation of Salsa Romantica singers that came up (after a few like Louie Ramirez, Frankie Ruiz, Luis Enrique, Eddie Santiago and others had kick-started it). But he was a Salsa Dura fan! He knows all the good old Salsa music, and has seen the birth and evolution of the Salsa Romantica into the pop-Salsa movement it became.

Victor Manuelle’s argument is that music needed to evolve, and in doing so, it attracted a whole new audience of Latin music fans that were more inclined to the romantic themes (e.g., like fans of ballads). He states that the Salsa Dura that Palmieri refers to is more than 40 years old and needed some changes, even when there is still room for the purists who like the old Salsa music instead of the new one. There is space for all type of Salsa music and Salsa music fans, he argues.

Economics and Content Drive Salsa Music Fate

I think Palmieri and Victor Manuelle both have good points. Yes, Salsa music began losing some of its essence with the emergence of Salsa Romantica and what is now pop-Salsa. That made some Salsa dura fans walk away. On the other hand, the music always evolves. That’s part of humankind.

Even classic Cuban music inside the isolated environment after the US embargo continued to evolve, from Son Montuno, Guaguanco, etc., to Songo and later Timba. Juan de Marcos created the band Sierra Maestra to “rescue” the traditional Cuban music from falling into obsolescence with the younger Cuban generation. On this same line of thought, Juan de Marcos later created the Buena Vista Social Club and the Afro Cuban All Stars bands with old Cuban legends almost forgotten.

Today we’ve seen the same with Salsa music. Bands like the Spanish Harlem Orchestra came out to “rescue” the old sound. Palmieri continues to perform his old material that audiences still love. And yet, the new generation of Salsa music and it’s artists has brought many new fans, even though some may not know, or may not even like the old style of Salsa.

Economics was part of the equation here. Clubs found it hard to sustain big Salsa bands. The new style of Salsa was less for clubs and more for concerts. It was less about dancing and more about listening as if it were ballads. So the clubs saw a decrease of attendance that couldn’t justify keeping them open. With less work there were less venues, and with less venues there was less work in a downward spiral.

The content had also something to do with old Salsa music falling out of public preference. Content of traditional Salsa was starting to become obsolete, just like the content of the old Cuban music that preceded Salsa was become obsolete to the (back then) new generation of Latin people in the barrios and urban neighborhoods. They didn’t want to listen yet again to “El Manicero”, but rather listen to “Calle Luna, Calle Sol”, something they could relate to more.

The “machista” and urban male themes were very common. Salsa Romantica brought themes all could relate to.

I better stop here, because there is so much to say about this topic. Both Palmieri and Victor Manuelle made good points. Even though pop-Salsa may have robbed some of the essence of what Salsa music was, the music was bound to evolve, and in doing so, opened it to a larger base audience. Like there are fans of Jazz and Latin Jazz, there is room for fans for old Salsa music, and of pop-Salsa.

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13 Comments
  1. Anonymous says

    I’m for Salsa dura all the way, and Victor Manuelle’s Salsa is good as well. at least some of it. this so called pop Salsa is just a name someone decided to give it. it’s still Salsa to me, now, Salsa romantic is whack. and probably started the salsa downward spiral. in my opinion, it was the Merengue craze that began soon after that. hey you listen to what you like. ‘I’m still a Salsero till I die. there are still places where I can still go and listen to my salsa live. or D.J. I also like the fact that the musicians that played for these great artists, like Palmieri, Colon, Pacheco’s are now branching out on their own. Jimmy Bosch, Jimmy Delgado, Willie Alvarez. and they keep my Salsa alive.

    La Salsa Vive por un buen rato !!!
    just go to Puerto Rico or Colombia !!!

    1. Hector Aviles says

      Thanks! Yes, Salsa music is still being heard, although it would be good to see artists being able to make a decent living doing what they (and us) love!

      Hector

      1. Anonymous says

        Tienes mucha razon Don Hector !!!
        Love the site, Congrats !

  2. Malo Castro says

    I love Mr.Eddie Palmieri but I also love Mr.Victor Manuelle.Both great both successful.theres room for change and innovation .La excelencia.Spanish Harlem,Los soneros del Barrio and many more are just spectacular.The problem isn’t the music it’s the constant bickering and no organization .With millions of followers in the us alone

  3. Billy la voz says

    this is an interesting topic i will def feed into this simply because salsa pop just like salsa reggae salsa rock salsarengue salsa is all part of our changing society .like fashion clothes hair shoes it changes but doesnt lose it roots or foundation when it does it fails. salsa music styles fall into the same category its a fashion statement but…but…you cannot toy with or tamper with the roots the traditional elements of the starting point. you see let me explain… salsa uz sauce a mix like any other traditional base…you need original recipe…in order to make it work and succeed look at sergio george. he took salsa and added his own twist of ingredients to the style and the final mix well we know what happened to that he succeeded.but along came other wanna be producers artists with no originality and exploited salsa to where it took a dive.record companies gambled with the wrong artists producers some copied it many failed
    ..they killed salsa.. hmmm so remember the real salsa recipe is old school salsa…ok lets not play around if your going to mix experiment you better follow the traditional recipe befor you go adding spices .ingredients that dont mux in or compliment the taste of our music for exame go to: http://www.gigmasters.com/latin/kompalsa
    listen to a track titled: hechando candela
    i added live drums to a tradional arrnagement in a diff genre.but i didnt change the groove the drummer was a funk drummer…you tell me if i enhanced what traditon holds to salsa or did i kill it?
    you see the problem with salsa is plain and simple…….ready?
    there are too many wanna be fakers who just think because they arrange music they think that they can arrange salsa old school tradition….im sorry guys leave it up to the big boys who created the sauce….its like s chef you csn copy his salsa sauce recipe but you can only come close or destroy its taste!

  4. J says

    I believe the problem in music in general is our lack of education. Music sounds uneducated. We have technology available that far exceeds any before our time, using this technology is the complication. Schools are teaching students how to use plugins in Pro Tools and offering services f

    1. Hector Aviles says

      I don’t think technology is an issue with Salsa music. I remember when Willie Colon started using synthesizers in his 1st solo album and in Hector Lavoe’s “De Ti Depende”. “Periodico de Ayer” still was a huge hit.
      So i don’t think technology is the scapegoat here!

  5. Anonymous says

    the salsa music scene has evolved into pop mainstream.caribbean.rock. its has takd the path that was needed in order to see if it could survive and stay afloat as a new genr of salsa…listen to my caribbean style of kompa/salsa at: http://www.reverbnation.com/billylavozkompalsa
    here you will see on trk “sak pase
    where it is going internationally.
    also sergio george started ghe era of pop with reggae in salsa and that changed ig to where every producer and singer was just copying sergios arranging and music styles…so what happens salsa is salsa …matter what style or genre but our old school traditional salsa cannot be played with of touched …it is the foundation of our salsa heritage. you cannot come close to ghe pioneers and maestros like old school salsa legends salsa de la brava es lo que esta para siempre.eso de salsa monga y salsa mickey mouse no va! you can add flavor to the sauce mix but you must respect the true original recipe if salsa! go to:
    http://www.gigmasters.com/latin/kompalsa
    listen to my old school salsa track with live drums … you would be surprised how the salsa tradition remains old school but with a new edge without sacrificing our original salsa recipe that masters like eddie palmieri and other great legends have brought the table years ago! Billy la voz….Kompalsa…

    1. Hector Aviles says

      Thanks Billy! Nicky Marrero just said this week in the Fania All Star press conference in Puerto Rico referring to Salsa music…”the music doesn’t get old, WE get old!”.

      He may have a good point there!

      H-

  6. Juan Data says

    It wasn’t just the solos and the improvisation that was lost in this so-called evolution. I’m not a salsa expert, but in my perception, salsa also lost it’s from-the-hood nature and its connection to African roots. Salsa Romántica and pop are basically whitened-out salsa, they remove all the streets and afro connections to make it marketable to a more cheesy mainstream audience. That was the genre’s biggest loss.

    1. Hector Aviles says

      Hi Juan,
      I believe that what you are saying is more or less along the lines of what Eddie Palmieri was arguing. Palmieri focused on the solos and improvisation, but you said it well regarding the other elements that changed. However, there is no denying that this softer salsa brought a new audience of Salsa fans that liked that softer version of Salsa. More commercial but less original.

      Nonetheless, la Salsa Dura no muere!

      Saludos!

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